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Reincarnation Discussion-Columbine Pronaos

Posted by Ronda Mitchell on August 2, 2010 at 8:15pm

We would like to invite members and non-members to join us for a discussion on reincarnation. The discussion will be led by the inspiring Farrell North.

 

Date:  Saturday, August 21, 2010

Time: 7-9 pm

Place: Columbine Unity Church, 8900 Arapahoe Road, Boulder, CO

 

If you have any questions please email us at colorado@amorc.rosicrucian.org or call 720-494-3067.

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  • Mary Louise Chilo May 13, 2011 at 11:20am


    Mary Louise Chilo said:


    Sapan Rinpoche - Kunga Gyaltsen said:

    Greetings Fraters & Sorrors,

     

    Baqck in February, 2011, Mary Louise Chilo saidL "The Law of Attraction is a far higher Law than the Law of Karmic Debt. " That comment makes absolutely no sense to me. Your use of the word "higher" seems to be an expression, as you further write about it, about what you like and don't like. Is there a heirarchy of LAWS? PRINCIPLES? PRECEPTS? THEORIES? HYPOTHESES? GOOD THINGS, BAD THINGS? ... and so forth. It doesn't make any sense to me to speak in that way?  Do you really believe in what you are saying?a

     

    Furthermore, "KARMA" is not a mid-east concept,

     

    but one that comes from the Metaphysics of Hinduism and Buddhism, and Reincarnation is not just about "debt" and "retribution." There are many fine essays in our Monographs and I would be happy to continue with this discussion if you are interested in doing that!

    Kindest regards, in the Bonds of Our Order and Peace Profound,

     

    Sapan Rinpoche

  • Mary Louise Chilo May 13, 2011 at 11:20am


    Sapan Rinpoche - Kunga Gyaltsen said:

    Greetings Fraters & Sorrors,

     

    Baqck in February, 2011, Mary Louise Chilo saidL "The Law of Attraction is a far higher Law than the Law of Karmic Debt. " That comment makes absolutely no sense to me. Your use of the word "higher" seems to be an expression, as you further write about it, about what you like and don't like. Is there a heirarchy of LAWS? PRINCIPLES? PRECEPTS? THEORIES? HYPOTHESES? GOOD THINGS, BAD THINGS? ... and so forth. It doesn't make any sense to me to speak in that way?  Do you really believe in what you are saying?a

     

    Furthermore, "KARMA" is not a mid-east concept,

     

    but one that comes from the Metaphysics of Hinduism and Buddhism, and Reincarnation is not just about "debt" and "retribution." There are many fine essays in our Monographs and I would be happy to continue with this discussion if you are interested in doing that!

    Kindest regards, in the Bonds of Our Order and Peace Profound,

     

    Sapan Rinpoche

  • Sapan Rinpoche - Kunga Gyaltsen May 13, 2011 at 1:31am

    Greetings Fraters & Sorrors,

     

    Baqck in February, 2011, Mary Louise Chilo saidL "The Law of Attraction is a far higher Law than the Law of Karmic Debt. " That comment makes absolutely no sense to me. Your use of the word "higher" seems to be an expression, as you further write about it, about what you like and don't like. Is there a heirarchy of LAWS? PRINCIPLES? PRECEPTS? THEORIES? HYPOTHESES? GOOD THINGS, BAD THINGS? ... and so forth. It doesn't make any sense to me to speak in that way?  Do you really believe in what you are saying?a

     

    Furthermore, "KARMA" is not a mid-east concept, but one that comes from the Metaphysics of Hinduism and Buddhism, and Reincarnation is not just about "debt" and "retribution." There are many fine essays in our Monographs and I would be happy to continue with this discussion if you are interested in doing that!

    Kindest regards, in the Bonds of Our Order and Peace Profound,

     

    Sapan Rinpoche

  • Mary Louise Chilo April 5, 2011 at 11:34pm

    Hi Ronda,

    Sorry I'm tardy responding.  I've had some other very important priorities that precluded this chat.

    You asked me what I thought about the difficulities caused by Karmic debt.  First of all, the concept of Karma is a mid-eastern religious concept and a way the author of it chose to explain happenings that are unpleasant to experience.  I understand that this religious concept is intimately connection to "coming into a body again" to solve challenges.  I also personally think that the Law of Attraction by far supercedes the Law of Karmic debt.  

    Why?  Karmic debt seems to rest on the belief in "punishment".   I think the Law of Attraction is much more believable and practical.  NO JUDGEMENT exists in the Law of Attraction.  Thoughts are "things" and what a person "thinks" manifests in their experience ... whether it's HERE or OUT THERE.   I think the ability to "think" exists whether we have a body or not ... so the Law of Attraction operates EVERYWHERE in the multiverses.

    As for Karmic debt, it gives every indication that it rests on a belief in a revengeful God.  I strongly believe that God is ONLY Good which inherently includes Good concepts like Love, Peace, and Abundance, and there is NO Divine creation called "bad".  

    A simile would be that God is like a shining light.  We know in THIS dimension the physics of light dispells darkness.  Darkness is NOT a something ... it is simply the "lack of light".  We don't "turn darkness on".  Darkness is the ABSENCE of light rather than having an existence of its own.  So specifically to answer your question, Karmic debt does not have an authentic existence.  Karmic debt is a belief in the absence of God, Good in our experience.   So, now what?   Focus on Good ... fill our mind with "life, truth, and love, then sin disease and death cannot enter a mind already full."   Simple saying ... YES ... but NOT easy to practice.  That's why we re-incarnate. 

    I think that Reincarnation ... or coming into a body "again" ... is different for each Soul depending on the particular Soul's intention for having a body again.   I think we have a body for the sole purpose to "practice" manifestation because without a body, manifestation is absolutely impossible for that Soul's essence.  

    The real question to ask ourself is "what am I manifesting in the way of God, Good in my relationships, in my health, in my service to others, in my expression of abundance?'  

    We've heard the saying that PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT .... so "practice, practice, practice" each day, week, month, year ... or lifetime ... UNTIL we are satisfied with our progress.  

     

    Namaste, Mary Louise Chilo

    Ronda Mitchell said:

    Hi Mary.

     Thank you for posting to our discussion. The different points of view make for very good reading and discussions. The Law of Attraction works such that, as you mention, what we believe and hold within our thoughts is what we will create. What are your thoughts on the difficulties that come into our lives due to Karmic debt? We can heal things in our lives, but part of the healing process may  not necessarily be complete recovery from physical damage but it can mean healing within ourselves to recognize that no matter what our physical body may endure during illness and injury we are still whole and complete spiritual beings that can still bring good into the world. I suppose it is a bit like my husband used to say "there is a difference between pain and suffering". Pain we endure, suffering we create. What are your thoughts about "bad" things like this that come into the lives of a person?

    PP

    Ronda 

    Mary Louise Chilo said:

    What "seems" missing perhaps is that Reincarnation is not nearly as important as it is being believed.  One comment was: "We cannot keep bad things from happening."  It is this persistant belief that keeps the believer in the chains of bad happenings.   The Law of Attraction is the primorial cosmic energy that brings to each of us EXACTLY what we believe and inact.   Holding one's thoughts steadfastly to the good, the true, AND the beautiful heals ALL ills ... physical, mental AND spiritual.. as well as past, present and future.   We are all spiritual beings having a human experience BECAUSE being incarnate we are then possessed with the power to "manifest".  Just what manifests for each of us is determined totally by our personal thought vibrations.  The only place there is for each one of us is HERE; the only time for each one of us is NOW.  Therefore:  BE HERE NOW.    Heal yourself HERE and NOW.   Then the next second, minute, hour, month, year .... or lifetime ... then BE HERE NOW.    YOU CAN DO THIS ... Love ya' all, Mary Louise Chilo 
  • Mary Louise Chilo February 11, 2011 at 8:04pm
    The Law of Attraction is a far higher Law than the Law of Karmic Debt.     Karmic Debt is created by "fear", "ignorance", "hate", etc.   The Law of Attraction's manifestation is EXACTLY a reflection of thought, word, AND act.  Negative manifests as "negative"; Positive manifests as "positive".  No judgement ... JUST MANIFESTATION!  There are NO ills that cannot be made well (i.e. healed).  NONE ...  The only thing standing in the way of a healing of someone's ills IS THEMSELF.   The human body and the human experience are COMPLETELY a manifestation and reflection of human thought vibration.  The Soul of Man (i.e. higher self or still small voice) is always here as guidance.  Sometimes WE allow the din OUTSIDE of ourselves to drown out that voice.  A hymn says: "I will listen for thy voice, lest my footsteps stray.  I will follow and rejoice all the rugged way."  Every cell of our bodies is a whole and complete universe of divine intelligence within itself.  Thought vibration like an earthquake can disrupt the perfectly created DNA pattern.  Therefore, change your mind and the vibration changes the "effect".  Talk to your body's cells with respect.  Drugging them only dulls their intelligence and distorts their perfect pattern.  THEY (i.e. body cells) are created from a spiritually perfect pattern.  We all have a right to demand that they respond to our command to return to their perfect pattern.  We often neglect that duty.  If they "appear" imperfect ... it is OUR sight (i.e. understanding and intention) that needs correcting.  Our bodies' cells are here solely to serve us as our Soul's vehicle to carry us around this physical dimension UNTIL we have completed our mission to learn HOW to manifest "things" harmoniously.  ("Things" meaning everything from relationships, health, to abundance expressed in one way by "money".)  The World is already GOOD and we  sorely need to stop trying to FIX it.  The only thing needing FIXING is OUR vibration.  WE cause disease, WE cause earthquakes, WE cause hurricanes with our diseased vibratory and violent thought patterns. The earth is a living being also and is composed of cells.  HOW to protect ourselves from these disturbances that may be cause by OTHERS?   WHEN we are each in OUR RIGHT MIND, then WE are each in a safe place and/or guided to GO there.  Transition (i.e. death) does not HAVE to be violent, painful, or disease filled.  When WE are each in our RIGHT MIND, we can consciously choose WHEN to transition and WHEN to reincarnate because when we are in our RIGHT MIND wisdom is present.  How do we know IF we are in our RIGHT MIND?  "Manifestation" caused by the Law of Attraction is how we tell.  Don't like what you're experiencing,  then change your mind.   Namaste, Mary Louise Chilo 
  • Ronda Mitchell February 11, 2011 at 4:39pm

    Hi Mary.

     Thank you for posting to our discussion. The different points of view make for very good reading and discussions. The Law of Attraction works such that, as you mention, what we believe and hold within our thoughts is what we will create. What are your thoughts on the difficulties that come into our lives due to Karmic debt? We can heal things in our lives, but part of the healing process may  not necessarily be complete recovery from physical damage but it can mean healing within ourselves to recognize that no matter what our physical body may endure during illness and injury we are still whole and complete spiritual beings that can still bring good into the world. I suppose it is a bit like my husband used to say "there is a difference between pain and suffering". Pain we endure, suffering we create. What are your thoughts about "bad" things like this that come into the lives of a person?

    PP

    Ronda 

    Mary Louise Chilo said:

    What "seems" missing perhaps is that Reincarnation is not nearly as important as it is being believed.  One comment was: "We cannot keep bad things from happening."  It is this persistant belief that keeps the believer in the chains of bad happenings.   The Law of Attraction is the primorial cosmic energy that brings to each of us EXACTLY what we believe and inact.   Holding one's thoughts steadfastly to the good, the true, AND the beautiful heals ALL ills ... physical, mental AND spiritual.. as well as past, present and future.   We are all spiritual beings having a human experience BECAUSE being incarnate we are then possessed with the power to "manifest".  Just what manifests for each of us is determined totally by our personal thought vibrations.  The only place there is for each one of us is HERE; the only time for each one of us is NOW.  Therefore:  BE HERE NOW.    Heal yourself HERE and NOW.   Then the next second, minute, hour, month, year .... or lifetime ... then BE HERE NOW.    YOU CAN DO THIS ... Love ya' all, Mary Louise Chilo 
  • Mary Louise Chilo February 11, 2011 at 3:29pm
    What "seems" missing perhaps is that Reincarnation is not nearly as important as it is being believed.  One comment was: "We cannot keep bad things from happening."  It is this persistant belief that keeps the believer in the chains of bad happenings.   The Law of Attraction is the primorial cosmic energy that brings to each of us EXACTLY what we believe and inact.   Holding one's thoughts steadfastly to the good, the true, AND the beautiful heals ALL ills ... physical, mental AND spiritual.. as well as past, present and future.   We are all spiritual beings having a human experience BECAUSE being incarnate we are then possessed with the power to "manifest".  Just what manifests for each of us is determined totally by our personal thought vibrations.  The only place there is for each one of us is HERE; the only time for each one of us is NOW.  Therefore:  BE HERE NOW.    Heal yourself HERE and NOW.   Then the next second, minute, hour, month, year .... or lifetime ... then BE HERE NOW.    YOU CAN DO THIS ... Love ya' all, Mary Louise Chilo 
  • Mary Louise Chilo February 11, 2011 at 3:16pm


    Sapan Rinpoche - Kunga Gyaltsen said:

    Our MONOGRAPHS have much good information on Reincarnation, the Principle of Reincarnation, the Law(s) of Compensation, Laws of Karma and so forth. I remember years ago, in the late 1970s and early 1980s a profound series of convocation talks at what was then the Supreme Temple of Order in San Jose, by former Grandmaster Robert Daniesl (now in transition) where Frater Daniels did a magnificent and scholarly work with the topic of Karma and Reincarnation. I still have those talks and value them highly, Frater Ed Lee, in his fine little book "Practical Mysticism," quotes a statement on Reincarnation from H. Spencer Lewis, found in "Mansions of the Soul," which will be beneficial to quote here:

     

    "Whether one believes in or accepts the doctrine of reincarnation or rejects it, the truth of the principles will continue to manifest itself and the laws will continue to operate. We neither obliterate nor modify a law or principle by denying or refusing to accept it. Therefore, it behooves everyone to become acquainted with the facts and at least to know something of the laws under which we are living, and by which we ar directed and controlled in our existence."

     

    Peace Profound,  Frater Sapan Rinpoche, F.R.C.

     

     

  • Sapan Rinpoche - Kunga Gyaltsen February 5, 2011 at 9:51am

    Our MONOGRAPHS have much good information on Reincarnation, the Principle of Reincarnation, the Law(s) of Compensation, Laws of Karma and so forth. I remember years ago, in the late 1970s and early 1980s a profound series of convocation talks at what was then the Supreme Temple of Order in San Jose, by former Grandmaster Robert Daniesl (now in transition) where Frater Daniels did a magnificent and scholarly work with the topic of Karma and Reincarnation. I still have those talks and value them highly, Frater Ed Lee, in his fine little book "Practical Mysticism," quotes a statement on Reincarnation from H. Spencer Lewis, found in "Mansions of the Soul," which will be beneficial to quote here:

     

    "Whether one believes in or accepts the doctrine of reincarnation or rejects it, the truth of the principles will continue to manifest itself and the laws will continue to operate. We neither obliterate nor modify a law or principle by denying or refusing to accept it. Therefore, it behooves everyone to become acquainted with the facts and at least to know something of the laws under which we are living, and by which we ar directed and controlled in our existence."

     

    Peace Profound,  Frater Sapan Rinpoche, F.R.C.

     

     

  • Peter McCumber January 13, 2011 at 12:04pm

    reincarnation is a system of perfecting the soul for Heaven. we have lessons to learn on this life and others in others until we are perfect. then we enter Heaven almost automatically. What do you meditate on? just meditate.

    this life is a meditation.

     

    PGLLL;Nick

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